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Post by lmsands on Jul 10, 2014 17:40:46 GMT -8
LOL, agreed.
And funny you mention fried mac & cheese as I just tried it for the very first time this afternoon. Had never even heard of it before discovering it at a booth at our farmer's market. Totally off topic, but timely.
Yes, while being all-inclusive is generally good, there are times when you just want to be.
I've asked here about successful Black indie authors. While I could've asked that elsewhere, I didn't want to risk the discussion being derailed which I find often happens with any discussion of race online. Perhaps I made a short-sighted assumption about asking elsewhere, but I just didn't feel comfortable.
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lbrw
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Post by lbrw on Jul 10, 2014 17:53:20 GMT -8
LOL, agreed. And funny you mention fried mac & cheese as I just tried it for the very first time this afternoon. Had never even heard of it before discovering it at a booth at our farmer's market. Totally off topic, but timely. Yes, while being all-inclusive is generally good, there are times when you just want to be. I've asked here about successful Black indie authors. While I could've asked that elsewhere, I didn't want to risk the discussion being derailed which I find often happens with any discussion of race online. Perhaps I made a short-sighted assumption about asking elsewhere, but I just didn't feel comfortable. I feelya. Chiiiiile, you are killing me over here! Ok, I'm gonna fess up. My mom never made baked macaroni and cheese at home. She makes hella good gumbo and gets down with Jewish cooking, but whenever we'd visit relatives I realized that the macaroni and cheese I ate there was waaay different. So, fast forward to my being a newlywed and my southern Black mother-in-law was a very good cook so I asked her about the macaroni and cheese she made, that's how I learned the difference in recipes (and my m/c and my daughter's are RIDICULOUS, like comedian Gary Owen describes eating at his in-laws, 8 different cheeses). She also taught me how to fry chicken. She worked as a cafeteria lady and they'd make bacon for the staff breakfast and save the grease to take home to fry chicken in. OMGOMGOMG. I can't even tell you. It's a religious experience. I feel so fat right now. Lol BTW, "The Texan" (my White significant other) happened to come through the room and see my rapidfire typing, stops and reads the thread over my shoulder, chuckles and asks, "You got a problem with White folks, babe?" I don't stop typing, but I answer, "All day, everyday." He's smart enough not to take the bait, kisses me, shrugs and says, "Ok,". Gotta love a smart sexy man.
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Post by siobhan on Jul 10, 2014 20:41:54 GMT -8
Another aspect to self-publishing that is very liberating. In bookstores, it seems that if the author is black then their work will be tucked away into the African American heritage section. With self-publishing, I have the power to classify my work anyway that I choose to.
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lbrw
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Post by lbrw on Jul 10, 2014 20:49:11 GMT -8
Another aspect to self-publishing that is very liberating. In bookstores, it seems that if the author is black then their work will be tucked away into the African American heritage section. With self-publishing, I have the power to classify my work anyway that I choose to. OMG, a writer on another forum that I frequent just said that EXACT same thing! Not 15 minutes ago. I'm trying to get her to come here. She has an extensive writing background and has been trad published so she's seen ALOT.
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Post by lmsands on Jul 10, 2014 22:06:29 GMT -8
Another aspect to self-publishing that is very liberating. In bookstores, it seems that if the author is black then their work will be tucked away into the African American heritage section. With self-publishing, I have the power to classify my work anyway that I choose to. Good point, Siobhan. What is the group's experience with featuring a black man, woman, child or couple on a cover, though? Or with describing characters in such a way that it's clear they are black (even if the story isn't a so-called 'black' story)? I know that there's no way to know the ethnicity of people buying your books (unless they speak up in reviews or through some other communication), but are books with black characters being read by a diverse audience? If not, then it still seems like a back of the bookstore experience. Hopefully, I'm just clueless here and that isn't the actual case, so please do fill me in. This is on my mind a lot lately as I'm seeing the success of other genres and am wondering what sort of success an author might even realistically hope for in fiction that features black lead characters. From what I can tell (mainly from reviews), street lit, romance and some AA erotica seems to be doing okay, but what about urban contemporary stories or mysteries, thrillers, historical fiction, etc.?
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lbrw
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Post by lbrw on Jul 10, 2014 22:25:29 GMT -8
When I wrote my debut series, a gay erotic romance trilogy that I'm finishing up now, I deliberately wrote my characters so that race would be whatever the reader interpreted. The characters on the cover could be Asian, Latino, lighter skinned Blacks, or White.
I'm gonna focus on more specific Black characters in future projects geared towards a Black audience.
I think there are Whites who may read stories with minority characters, but truthfully, I have little interest in catering to that audience. If they find me and enjoy my books, great, but crossover appeal isn't even on my checklist for a successful writing career. I'm not actively seeking a White audience for me to feel validated.
I also think that there are plenty of minorities who are hungry for stories that are meaningful to them and more than enough to be financially successful.
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lbrw
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Post by lbrw on Jul 11, 2014 10:20:05 GMT -8
When addressing the lack of diversity in literature, is it about the lack of stories with diverse characters or is it about the lack of minority writers writing about their experiences? I am a member of a few message boards for authors. I also try to remain tuned into twitter trends about readership and demand. Over the last year, there have been a few trending events around the lack of diversity in literature. From my observation, it seemed like most minority readers were protesting the lack of minority authors and the lack of stories with authentic minority characters. I remember looking at twitter and seeing authors--many of them white--posting links to their stories that happened to have minority characters. That experience didn't sit well with me. I felt like it was manipulation or exploitation for them to do this. I think when a minority reader is saying that they want stories with minority characters, they don't strictly mean a story that happens to have a main character with a brown face and an "ethnic" name. I think what they are really looking for is a story that reflects the culture or community of which they belong. They want to immerse themselves in an authentic experience. I think some authors jumped on the bandwagon knowing that there is a lack of diversity in fiction, but some--or many of them--failed in their execution of these stories. I gave this quite a bit of thought, especially after the events of yesterday with Jolie, who has subsequently resigned from this forum.
She was raised in a White community and cannot feel comfortable in discussions about race that are casual to most minorities because to participate challenges what she feels about herself racially, despite cries of being so secure with herself and her domestic situation. (I have to say, if my significant other went to such great pains to avoid discussion of his heritage and it's impact on the world at large, I'd be looking at him sideways, but I digress.)
Applying the above conjecture to Whites writing minority characters, I think we have several dynamics at play.
I think there are Whites (any race really) who are "writing to market". Not meant to be insensitive, but if Asians are selling, that's what they write. (The same as folks who write werewolves or vampires or whatever is selling).
Then there are those who truly want to include a diverse range of characters, but since they have no frame of reference, the characters are hollow. (Brown faces, no trace of actual culture OR only write the stale stereotypes. They mean well, but are ineffective.)
Then there are those who either have intimate knowledge of minorities because of growing up around them, living amongst them or have done extensive research. Their characters ring true and are textured and nuanced in ways that have the actual minority members stand up and take notice.)
James Caan is long remembered and has gotten MANY awards from Italian groups for his role as Sonny Corleone in The Godfather. He is accepted by Italians and routinely has been sought out for recognition by them.
James Caan is a Jew.
He has said in many interviews that he has trouble convincing Italians that he isn't one of them. They are not trying to hear that. But because he grew up in a New York neighborhood where he knew Italians personally, he was able to accurately recreate mannerisms, slang, he could be more than a caricature in his performance and Italians saw this, enjoyed and respected the extra effort.
This goes for writers who want to create ANY character as more than a one dimensional caricature.
Go the extra mile to research and write outside of YOUR comfort zone to engage your readers at THEIR comfort zone. At the very least, you might learn something new.
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Post by kipenci on Jul 12, 2014 15:18:45 GMT -8
This was a good read. I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said. I completely agree that the lack of diversity is an issue, and I interrupt this as a deficiency of both writers and characters. We need to see ourselves reflected in modern art and who better to produce those works than us?
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lbrw
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Post by lbrw on Jul 13, 2014 15:11:51 GMT -8
Keep in mind that these posts are only presented by me as my opinion and your mileage may vary. Also, this is not my forum, my experience is limited and I have no authority here. I'm simply a fellow writer and member trying to give back in the spirit of sharing that which was shared with me by those more experienced than I am in self-publishing.
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